Thad Hwang: [00:01] We set out to solve two big problems. One, bad coverage and two, overpaying for cellphone plans. 70% to 90% of mobile data happens on Wi-Fi, it’s crazy.
DR: [00:14] So you don’t even need an unlimited plan?
Thad Hwang: [00:16] Exactly. So if you’re on an unlimited plan, there’s a good chance you’re paying for data you barely use.
DR: [00:16] Yeah, yeah.
Thad Hwang: [00:23] Goji makes it easy to compare every US carrier and plan side-by-side, like the Expedia for cellphone plans. No more jumping between websites.
Announcer: [00:37] This is “Telco in 20,” a podcast that helps Telco execs achieve a competitive advantage with AI and the public cloud. It is hosted by Danielle Rios, also known as DR. Today, we’re talking to Thad Hwang, the CEO and founder of Goji Mobile.
DR: [00:56] Hi, guys. I’m DR. Telco execs, do you know how many people say out loud, my Wi-Fi isn’t working when they’re actually talking about your network? Most people don’t know the difference between the two. And here’s the thing, that’s a massive problem for our industry because when consumers can’t tell Wi-Fi from cellular, they can’t make informed decisions about what they actually need. Plus, when you use words like eSIM, data throttling, roaming charges, 5G ultra-wideband nationwide plus premium, people don’t understand what the heck you’re talking about. But here’s the part that’s really shocking, 70% to 90% of mobile data usage usually happens over Wi-Fi, which means a lot of consumers are paying $80 a month for unlimited data they barely use, and they have no easy way to figure that out. So I thought, what if we built the Expedia of mobile, a place where consumers could actually understand what they’re buying?
[01:54] Now, I’m a B2B software person, I solve enterprise problems, not consumer ones. So I needed someone who actually knows how to build things people love using. So I called my friend, Thad Hwang. Thad and I go way back to our Triology days. After Triology, he went on to lead passenger experience at Lyft and help build an app that millions of people use every day. I pitched him the idea and the Goji Mobile app was born. Today, Thad is here to talk about how Goji brings transparency to mobile. He explains Goji’s coverage map feature that shows consumers which carrier performs best at their address, the uber-cool ChatBarry, an AI assistant that analyzes usage patterns and recommends the right plan, and a new Goji store launching for Cyber Monday that offers quality refurbished phones at awesome prices. So let’s take 20.
[02:50] Thad Hwang is the CEO and founder of Goji Mobile.
[02:53] Hi Thad. Welcome to “Telco in 20.”
Thad Hwang: [02:56] Hi. Thanks. I’m thrilled to be on the show.
DR: [02:58] Okay, you’re an old friend. We met at Trilogy when I was leading Trilogy University. You worked on tons of consumer-facing automotive projects like Ford and Nissan, and that’s really where you got your love for consumer-focused projects. You left Trilogy and ended up going to Silicon Valley where you worked for Lyft doing something pretty amazing. You worked on Lyft’s passenger experience team, which was responsible for everything having to do with booking a ride on Lyft.
Thad Hwang: [03:24] Yeah, it was a pretty amazing time when I joined because that was when there was a #DeleteUber and a lot of passengers shifted from Uber to Lyft.
DR: [03:24] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [03:35] One of my first projects was to own that little LED sign on the cars.
DR: [03:41] Oh, yeah.
Thad Hwang: [03:41] That was my team too. So it was a really fun time to join the Lyft team and own that experience.
DR: [03:44] Yeah. And so a couple of years ago, we were catching up, I’m like, “What are you up to?” And you’re like, “Oh, I want to start a new consumer-facing app or idea.” And I was like, “Hmm, that’s really funny because I have a consumer-facing idea.” And the idea was to help consumers navigate the complicated world of owning and managing a mobile phone. And so we paired up and that’s how Goji Mobile was born.
Thad Hwang: [04:11] Yeah.
DR: [04:11] So you’ve been working on it for a couple years. You’ve built it from the ground up. Tell everyone about how amazing Goji Mobile is.
Thad Hwang: [04:18] Yeah. When I came to you and you pitched the idea, I loved it. It was a fantastic idea. As we mentioned, I’m a consumer guy. So Goji is a consumer-facing product and it helps users really navigate this complicated world of mobile phones and plans. Have you ever tried to figure out which phone or plan to get? It’s just not easy. Every carrier has got their own deal, bundle, coverage map, it’s just a mess. So Goji simplifies all of that.
DR: [04:47] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [04:47] Goji is the Expedia for cellphones and plans. You can shop for new or refurbished devices, you can compare plans across carriers, and see what makes sense for you, while in one place. As you mentioned, we built it from the ground up to make shopping for mobile easy, transparent, and personalized. It’s evolving into this super app for your mobile life. We think it’s really going to change how people shop for and manage cellphones and plans.
DR: [05:14] Yeah, I really like the way you describe it being the Expedia of mobile phones. It’s this one-stop place where you can book your entire trip and all the things you need with it. So likewise, with Goji Mobile, right? One place to figure out the best network, figure out the best phone, figure out the best plan. It’s amazing. And so what are the primary actions that users can use the app for? What can you do with Goji?
Thad Hwang: [05:36] Yeah, so when we first launched Goji, we set out to solve two big problems. One, bad coverage and two, overpaying for cellphone plans.
DR: [05:47] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [05:47] So let’s start with coverage. We all know the frustration. Dropped calls while driving, dead zones at home, weak signals in certain areas-
DR: [05:56] Yeah, yeah.
Thad Hwang: [05:56] … That’s why we built a killer coverage map and plug in any address and instantly see how your current carrier performs and compare it against all the other carriers.
DR: [06:07] And people love this. I show this to people all the time. You can zoom in down to the street level, which is so different than the coverage maps in the store or on TV.
Thad Hwang: [06:17] Yeah.
DR: [06:18] You can zoom in on your routes, you can zoom in at work or at home to really see how the different carriers compare.
Thad Hwang: [06:24] Well, a lot of coverage maps, when you go to the carrier website, they just tell you about their coverage. But what’s great about our coverage map, we’re sort of agnostic, we not only show you the coverage for what your carrier shows, but we show you how your carrier stack ranks versus all the other carriers.
DR: [06:41] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [06:42] You know how Progressive Insurance not only gives you their quote, but gives you quotes for everybody else-
DR: [06:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Thad Hwang: [06:46] … it’s the same thing. It’s so cool to be able to see how your network stack ranks against all the other carriers.
DR: [06:53] I think that’s what really stops people from switching networks is they’re like, “I know where the dead zones are and they’re acceptable, I live with them. If I switch, I’m worried it’s going to be a degraded experience and I don’t know until I switch what it’s going to be like for me.” So they stay.
Thad Hwang: [07:09] Exactly. And then I think what’s equally important with the coverage map is to plug in multiple addresses because you’re home a lot and you’re at work a lot. So those two locations are very important. But maybe there’s the WeWork you go to or maybe school’s important.
DR: [07:22] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [07:23] You can see with all those different points of interest, how the coverage maps ranks per carrier and then make that informed decision about the carrier that’s best for me.
DR: [07:33] Yeah, for the way I use my phone. That’s awesome. And then the second thing that you can do with Goji Mobile?
Thad Hwang: [07:38] Yeah, so overpaying for cellphone plans.
DR: [07:40] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [07:41] Most people spend way too much, and this is an interesting little factoid, 70% to 90% of mobile data happens on Wi-Fi, it’s crazy.
DR: [07:50] So you don’t even need an unlimited plan?
Thad Hwang: [07:52] Exactly. So if you’re on an unlimited plan, there’s a good chance you’re paying for data you barely use. And with so many confusing plan options, it’s almost impossible to compare them all. So that’s where Goji comes in. Goji makes it easy to compare every US carrier and plan side-by-side, like the Expedia for cellphone plans, no more jumping between websites.
DR: [08:14] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [08:14] And to make it even easier, we’ve built an AI chatbot that we’ve affectionately named ChatBarry, so just tell Barry what you’re looking for, “I want better coverage. I want a less expensive family plan,” and he’ll recommend options that fit your needs and save you real money.
DR: [08:31] So there’s like 200 plans for any consumer to select from. Just imagine if you walked into the store and there’s like 200 kinds of pasta, you’re just like, “Hello?”
Thad Hwang: [08:40] Like Cheesecake Factory, right? That menu is insane.
DR: [08:44] Too many choices and people just don’t know what they need. The telcos always talk in their language, not in language that the average consumer understands.
Thad Hwang: [08:54] That’s right.
DR: [08:54] You have no idea how much data one movie uses or watching your favorite sports team, they speak in gigabytes. So Goji is just trying to demystify that and really make it consumer-accessible so you can pick the right thing. And so you recently launched the ability to buy phones directly through Goji, and so Cyber Monday I would imagine is a big buying of technology and especially mobile phones. And so do you have any big plans for Cyber Monday and the holidays with Goji?
Thad Hwang: [09:23] Yeah, we’re so excited for this because when Goji first launched, we were focused on plans, but in the holiday shopping season, people want to buy phones. So in October, we launched the Goji store, making it easy for customers to buy phones directly from us.
DR: [09:38] Totally.
Thad Hwang: [09:38] While our long-term goal is to sell new phones, our current inventory is mostly refurbished phones.
DR: [09:38] Sure.
Thad Hwang: [09:44] And if you don’t know, refurbished phones are pre-owned devices that have been fully tested, repaired if needed, and restored to perfect working condition-
DR: [09:52] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [09:52] … Unlike the phones you get from Craigslist or eBay, Goji phones come ready to go with a warranty.
DR: [09:58] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [09:58] And it’s just a really smart way to save, often priced up to 40% less than new phones-
DR: [09:58] Sure.
Thad Hwang: [10:04] … and just in time for the holiday season.
DR: [10:06] And I think for consumers out there in the United States, a refurbished phone is really great for someone on a budget.
Thad Hwang: [10:12] Yeah.
DR: [10:12] But also when you’re starting to give your children their first cellphone at 12, 13, you maybe don’t want to buy them the iPhone 17 Air Pro Max, but getting them a refurb phone. You want to save some money, but still give them connectivity, which is awesome.
Thad Hwang: [10:26] Yep. Kids, parents as well too, but every generation of release of these new phones, it’s very incremental these days.
DR: [10:33] Yeah, there’s not much difference. Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [10:35] Maybe a slightly better camera, different body, even the screen sizes barely change, so you’re really looking at a pretty great savings when, for example, you go back just a few generations, you can save a lot of money by going with an iPhone 15 for like $600, which we do have in the Goji store versus iPhone 17 Pro, which is well over a thousand dollars.
DR: [10:57] Yeah, yeah. It’s a great way to get a great phone.
Thad Hwang: [10:58] Exactly right. Yes, it’s a better camera, but do you really need that for that amount of dollars? So I think that’s where the trade-off occurs, and I think it’s a great savings opportunity.
DR: [11:07] Totally. So let’s talk about savings and really helping consumers save money. I personally use Goji to save about $900 a year. Sorry, Verizon, by optimizing my family’s plan. I realized that the kids were on unlimited, they didn’t need that, I was able to downsize them. I had some charges on there that I didn’t even know I was being charged for, I was able to eliminate it. So how common is that, helping consumers save a bunch of money?
Thad Hwang: [11:32] Very common. It’s typical for people to be significantly overpaying on their cellphone bills, especially those on unlimited plans since most of their data usage happens over Wi-Fi, you mentioned that earlier, and many families are still on legacy plans paying for features they don’t really need. So let’s share some common ways to save.
DR: [11:50] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [11:50] Number one, downgrading from unlimited to capped data plans. For example, as you mentioned, Verizon users can save about 20 bucks a month by switching to their 15-gig plan, which is plenty of data for most people. Second, moving kids from a $65-per-month premium unlimited plan to a $30-per-month prepaid plan because who wants their kids using their devices all day anyways.
DR: [12:13] Yeah, yeah.
Thad Hwang: [12:14] And then I did this for my dad recently. He’s at home 99% of the time, so I downgraded him from a premium unlimited plan to a 5-gig prepaid plan.
DR: [12:14] Yeah, yeah.
Thad Hwang: [12:23] And lastly, checking bills for unused device lines. Like you said, a lot of people pay for an iPad line that they no longer use, and all those little changes can add up fast, but figuring them out on your own, that’s the hard part.
DR: [12:36] Yeah.
Thad Hwang: [12:36] That’s why we built Goji to do the heavy lifting for you. We make it super easy to switch carriers and save a lot of money. And fun fact, we’ve had several users report, just like you, saving over $500 per year just switching.
DR: [12:36] It’s a lot of money.
Thad Hwang: [12:51] It’s a lot of money. There’s a lot of tacos in a year.
DR: [12:52] You can do a lot of stuff with that. You can buy an airplane ticket and go somewhere fun.
Thad Hwang: [12:56] Yeah.
DR: [12:57] But speaking of things that we totally love, you and I both play pickleball. You were recently in Austin, we played together for the first time, it was super fun. Thad found out just how competitive I am. But what’s so fun about pickleball is they have all these funky moves, these little plays that you can do. One’s called the Erne, one’s called the ATP, which is the around the post, it’s when you hit the ball around the post, and then the Nasty Nelson when you literally intentionally target someone to hit with your serve, and if it touches their body before it bounces, you can win the point. So my question for Thad is what’s your favorite pickleball maneuver?
Thad Hwang: [13:27] So hot off the presses, I did my first Erne recently and it was incredible.
DR: [13:33] That’s so awesome.
Thad Hwang: [13:34] Yeah. For the listeners who don’t know what Erne is, it’s this fast surprise shot you make by jumping outside the kitchen.
DR: [13:42] The non-volley zone.
Thad Hwang: [13:43] Yeah, the non-volley zone. It’s the square box that by rule you can’t step into, so you jump outside the kitchen and I hit it right out of the air and won the points. So it’s an amazing feeling.
DR: [13:54] Well, I’ve never done an Erne, I want to do one too, and so I would probably just go crazy. My favorite thing is the ATP, but what I did most recently was I defended an ATP. So someone hit the ball around the post, I don’t even know how my brain figured out what to do, but I blocked it and got it back. I ended up losing the point, but probably because my brain was exploding because I was so happy that I defended an ATP.
Thad Hwang: [13:54] Yeah.
DR: [14:16] So it was super fun. Well, Thad, this was a super awesome conversation about what’s going on at Goji, and I hope you have a super amazing Cyber Monday, and thanks for coming on the podcast.
Thad Hwang: [14:25] Thanks for having me on this show. This was fun.
DR: [14:28] Yay.
[14:32] Stick around. We end each podcast with a “Telco in 20” takeaway. I’ve got two minutes to tell you something you need to know.
[14:43] Goji Mobile exists because operators won’t build it themselves, not because you’re not smart enough, but because your DNA is network engineering, not consumer product design. When Thad joined Lyft during the #DeleteUber moment, he owned the passenger experience for millions of people booking rides. That’s consumer product expertise, obsessing how normal folks interact with technology in their daily lives. But most telco innovation comes from brilliant infrastructure people trying to do consumer work. They optimize telecom networks, not subscriber experiences. They speak in SIM cards and data throttling because that’s the language of building systems, not selling to humans. And so the gap between what telcos build and what consumers need keeps growing. The carriers that win over the next decade won’t just build better networks. They’ll import fresh thinking that’s customer focused from outside telco, new talent, updated metrics, modern DNA. That’s what we’re doing at Totogi, bringing fresh new AI-native thinking to an industry that’s been solving problems the same way for decades because the best network in the world doesn’t matter if consumers can’t figure out what to buy.
[15:58] If you’re looking for fresh ideas in Telco, don’t miss Telecom TV’s Great Telco Debate on Thursday, December 4th in London. While you’re there debating the future of telecom, I’ll be fighting for dominance on the courts at the DUPR 16 National Pickleball Championships in Dallas. I’m sad to miss The Great Telco Debate, but I hope I score some hardware for myself. Until then, don’t forget to tune into more “Telco in 20” episodes, like and follow, and leave us a five-star review. Sign up for my must-read e-mail newsletter on TelcoDR.com and check out our super awesome YouTube channel. Happy Thanksgiving. Gobble, gobble. Later, nerds.
